We are not a Christian nation.

I recently joined a friend's conversation about whether or not America is a Christian nation. He had one responder with whom I began a bit of a debate. I don't know what possessed me really. I guess when it comes to this issue, I must admit it is one very personal to me having grown-up as a religious minority in our country, having my kids grow-up as religious minorities, and my husband as well has experienced similar issues coming from his mixed background and being raised in Southern Idaho. So, yes, I do feel the desire to speak out on this issue, for better or worse. . .

Responder: It is no longer a Christian Nation religiously. But it was founded on Judeo Christian principals. That is what makes it a Christian nation. Once we adopt Sharia, it will be a gunsmoke nation.


‪My response: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion. . ."‬

‪Article 11, Treaty of Tripoli, Ratified by the United States June 10, 1797. http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/bar1796t.asp‬

‬



Responder: Correct, it was not founded on the Christian Religion, it was founded on the Principals of the morals that come from the Christian Religion. Just as ISIS is founded on the morals of the Radical Islamic Religion, and the old USSR was founded on the Morals of the Atheist (Religion, for want of a better term). A civilization is going to be directed by its moral foundation. Ours was Judeo Christian.

My response: You said "Judeo-Christian" principles. So then, why are we not a Jewish nation by your reasoning? Our founders were also guided by principals based on white male supremacy. So, because of that, would you also say we are a white male supremacist nation?


Responder: Methinks you put too much into the society at the times as deliberate. If you asked Abigail Adams if the society was White Male supremacist you might get a different answer. To judge that society with today's cultural expectations does not do justice to the radical freedoms gleaned at the time. The very fact the our founding fathers moved away from Monarchy to a representative form of government was very radical indeed. Granted, only men could vote. But what was astonishing was that any free man could vote, not just landowners. (We can discuss the Slave issue at another time as that will take pages to devote to the cultural deprivations and antagonistic conflicts aroused by that disaster.)

As for the Judeo in Judeo-Christian, both are based on the same fundamental religious tenets. In fact there is no Christianity without the Jewish ancestry of the religion. There were many Jewish communities in the colonies, especially around New York City. Just as there were Catholic and Protestant sects. The radical ideas that the Freedom of Religion propagated, such as tolerance of other religions, was something not seen before in the colonization of English domains. The Anglican Church was required as the King was the head of that organization... 



My response: You completely missed the point. As a Jewish person, the idea of a Christian nation scares the bejeezus (pun intended) out of me. The fact that you can tout Judeo-Christian principles and then morph that into meaning "Christian nation" only serves to solidify this worry. My point about white male supremacists principles is that our country evolved (I know, evolution is probably not your thing), and continues to evolve (we certainly have further we can go). In the end, "Christian nation" only serves as a tool to disenfranchise non-Christians of our country and that is completely counter to American principles. By the way, thanks for "tolerating" me. Silly me, expecting that religious freedom actually meant more than tolerance. I've said my piece. Peace out!

Responder: So much for a nice conversation. Have a nice day.‬

Perhaps, I crossed a line with my comment about “evolution is probably not your thing,” but the jab (yes, I admit it was a jab) was based on the worry, idea, thought that often those insisting that we call our nation a Christian nation have an agenda and purpose for doing so, including dictating what our public schools can and cannot teach based on the bible. And, my comment regarding tolerance not being the same as religious freedom is getting at my feeling that those calling for the US to be considered a Christian nation are not getting the fundamental difference between tolerating other religions and actually protecting and ensuring that religions in our country are on equal footing under the law. 

As Mr. StoneRabbit said to me after telling him about my conversation above, "not eradicating another is too low a bar for a free society."

I would be curious to hear my reader’s thoughts.

Not Mutually Exclusive

My outrage over Cecil the Lion's death is not because an animal was hunted in and of itself. I am not a hunter and never will be. But, I can certainly understand the hunting for food as part of an organized season to cull the overpopulation of a species that would otherwise die of starvation and/or disease due to this overpopulation. I may even be able to understand hunting to protect hearth and home, though I do think there are other measures that could be explored. I am willing to have the conversation.

What bothers me about Cecil's death is not that he was some famous or beloved lion. No! It was the way in which he was hunted, dying 40 hours after being hit with an arrow. It was the purpose of the hunt, simply for a trophy. And, it was the way of the hunt, luring an animal out of a protected park.

Some are saying that we are spending too much time focusing on the death of a lion. My outrage at the lion's death does not diminish or replace my outrage at girls being stolen and sold into slavery or for innocents being killed for not following ISIS dogma or for too many children of the world living in poverty with little chance for education or upward mobility. Disgust and outrage over one inhumane act does not negate nor diminish my disgust and outrage over other inhumane acts in this world. These things are not mutually exclusive!